Curse

MithranArkanere · Jan 25, 2011, 02:25 PM // 14:25

Them not being unbalanced enough is not a reason to keep them that way.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 25, 2011, 04:03 PM // 16:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Them not being unbalanced enough is not a reason to keep them that way.

The fact of the matter is, that they are not imbalanced at all, since you can outdo them with the 15^50 20_50 combo, thus making them not imbalanced at all, which implies that there should not be any QQ'ing going on at all..

The only thing I'm hearing is "his toy is prettier than mine, but I can't have his toy, and if I can't have it, no one can."

Uncods are NOT imbalanced, and are not even worth worrying about because there are so little, let alone so little active ones..

*lemming* · Jan 25, 2011, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Them not being unbalanced enough is not a reason to keep them that way.

Well, you can't add them to PvP item generation - that would instantly make every PvE physical character obsolete.

Hobbs · Jan 25, 2011, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by lemming

Well, you can't add them to PvP item generation - that would instantly make every PvE physical character obsolete.

And every other inherent obsolete except 20_50 and 20wH.

carnage-runner · Jan 25, 2011, 10:28 PM // 22:28

This is a case of "Anet should or shouldn't do it out of principle." Either they should remove all items that give any unfair advantage no matter how insignificant, or they should leave all items alone. I am a fan of the latter. Most unconditional weapons are on accounts with people who no longer play. Maybe the triple mods will spice up the community again for a little while between now and GW2. They honestly can't hurt, so why bother fretting.

End · Jan 25, 2011, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

And every other inherent obsolete except 20_50 and 20wH.

I'd just like to mention this...and this is coming from someone who owns 0 Unconditionals and is in a position to believe he never will, except via some deal that involves sexual favors.

The efficiency of an unconditional is beat by a 15^50 and a 20v50 with weapon switching.

While it may be a pain to do it's completely possible (spent some time doing it and if I can do it I know those high end pvpers who weapon switch like a boss should have no problem with it). (periods do go outside the parenthesis in that case right?)

So calling them unbalanced is just silly. Unlike triple mod weapons which have the potential (although as far as I'm aware no truly impressive ones exist) to give a continuous extra benefit (i.e. 20/20/+15-1 offhand so they can has a 40/40 high set) which cannot be beaten via weapon switching and what not.

Sooo,

1) unconditionals aren't unbalanced as with a little bit of work they are inferior to weapon switching

2) comparing them to triple mod wands and shiznitz is idiotic because unlike unconditionals they do have the possibility to provide bonuses that are un-replicable or unbeatable by weapon switching.

3) I've failed my energy drink diet

reaper with no name · Jan 26, 2011, 07:47 PM // 19:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

The fact of the matter is, that they are not imbalanced at all, since you can outdo them with the 15^50 20_50 combo, thus making them not imbalanced at all, which implies that there should not be any QQ'ing going on at all..

The only thing I'm hearing is "his toy is prettier than mine, but I can't have his toy, and if I can't have it, no one can."

Uncods are NOT imbalanced, and are not even worth worrying about because there are so little, let alone so little active ones..

15% unconditional + 20_50 is always better than 15^50 + 20_50 (the only difference being that the former doesn't punish you as much when you inevitably mess it up once in a while). This is a fact. If you want to argue that the effort to remove these isn't worth the benefit, well, that may or may not be a legitimate criticism (though I would then be quick to point out that it should be no harder than removing triple mod weapons, which anet has already stated they will do), but to say that there is no imbalance whatsoever (however slight) is like saying that a 20 foot pole is just as long as a 21 foot pole. It is simply incorrect.

I have no personal attachment to this (there are no unconditional scythes), merely an ideological one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yawgmoth

Stupid joke of a thread. OP - Have you been beaten with an unconditional weapon? Really?

There are NO items in the game which are unbalanced enough to create a significat advantage and to warrant a nerf but some people can QQ about just anything, even the tiniest little bit of imbalance, even if it has practically ZERO impact on the gameplay.

Personally I have nothing against having all those omgunfair being used against me in PvP and PvE is in desperate need of more variety - it's a great shame that a large variety of interesting weapons on the market aren't possible drops anymore.
I'd suggest something opposite to actually make the game more interesting - bring back the possibility of unconditional damage weapons drop in Tyria!

+10-11% - Semi-Rare (like +15/-1degen weapons)
+12% - Very rare (like 5x more rare than 11%)
+13% - Extreme rare (like 20x more rare than 12%)
+14% - ?? a Mystery (maybe someone somewhere will get one)
+15% - NO (but don't touch the existing few, they're harmless)

If you want unconditionals to drop again, why not 15s? If it is ok for these to exist, then why shouldn't everyone be allowed to have one? As I understand, that is what it means to have balance: everyone is entitled to the same advantages, no matter how slight one may perceive them to be.

Ironically, I would have no problem with unconditionals dropping again, so long as all of them did.

Once again, if one is worried about former unconditionals losing their value, I've already pointed out that there are ways around this (put the equivalent of an "I was an original unconditional" label on them to keep them unique).

MithranArkanere · Jan 26, 2011, 08:33 PM // 20:33

Look at the Zaishen Managerie.
The differences between pets are not that much, but they still are. And PvP characters had no access to them.

Now everyone has access to all pets, and now it's fair.

Even if the purpose of the Menagerie was not really to fix that imbalance, the fact that it was fixed and that being good remains.

*lemming* · Jan 26, 2011, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by MithranArkanere

Look at the Zaishen Managerie.
The differences between pets are not that much, but they still are. And PvP characters had no access to them.

Now everyone has access to all pets, and now it's fair.

Even if the purpose of the Menagerie was not really to fix that imbalance, the fact that it was fixed and that being good remains.

The principle is certainly correct. The problem is that there is no practical way of handling it, and it hardly seems like something that should be prioritized when it has no actual effect in PvP.

I actually don't think that adding a +5-10% unconditional inscription would be a terrible idea, but I have no idea what that would do to the unconditional market.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 26, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by reaper with no name

15% unconditional + 20_50 is always better than 15^50 + 20_50 (the only difference being that the former doesn't punish you as much when you inevitably mess it up once in a while). This is a fact. If you want to argue that the effort to remove these isn't worth the benefit, well, that may or may not be a legitimate criticism (though I would then be quick to point out that it should be no harder than removing triple mod weapons, which anet has already stated they will do), but to say that there is no imbalance whatsoever (however slight) is like saying that a 20 foot pole is just as long as a 21 foot pole. It is simply incorrect.

I have no personal attachment to this (there are no unconditional scythes), merely an ideological one.

yes, there is a slight difference, but I challenge you to find 1 person who has an uncod, is active (as in daily active) and uses it in PvP (the only place it could give an unfair advantage). You'll find someone, but it's only gonna be a handful, and the difference is still so f*cking minor that I don't get why you're complaining about it so hard..

And, there are almost no 15% uncods, most are 13% I think..

And they won't drop again, because even if you make them super duper rare, they will cause the one thing Anet always wanted to prevent.. Having stronger weapons than someone else, they just cost shittons of money.. They'll still be worth ~1000 ecto's at first, and Anet's idea was always that you should only pay for purdy-ness not for effectiveness.. Max dmg weapons are found all over the land and can be easily acquired trough collectors..

I know the above paragraph is contradictory, because if it is their idea not to have weapons in their game that give advantages, they should most certainly remove uncods, but the fact of the matter is still that they were meant to exist from the start. Anet only removes items that aren't meant to exist or are caused by bugs/bug exploits. Like the triple mods. They were bugged, and as such, will be removed, uncods aren't bugged, they were meant to be that way in the very beginning, and as such, will not be removed.

Hobbs · Jan 27, 2011, 12:26 AM // 00:26

There's no proof at all that unconds were implemented intentionally, jus' sayin'.

However, they were certainly removed intentionally and that says a lot about whether they were bugged. I reckon that ANet doesn't have the resources to automatically remove unconds or triple mods so in all likelihood, they're both here for good.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 27, 2011, 09:54 AM // 09:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

There's no proof at all that unconds were implemented intentionally, jus' sayin'.

However, they were certainly removed intentionally and that says a lot about whether they were bugged. I reckon that ANet doesn't have the resources to automatically remove unconds or triple mods so in all likelihood, they're both here for good.

They had the resources to remove them all from the game when they removed the possibility for them to drop in the first place. The game was 2 weeks old and there was not that big a playerbase, and the items could've been easily traced and removed. They didn't do it back then, because they didn't want to, and they still won't do it, because of all the reasons summed up before.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 27, 2011, 11:42 AM // 11:42

In my opinion this is the endless war between rich and poor...
Rich want keep them to gain xxxxe or just to show them,well they are unique and there arent a lot of them.
Poor want to remove because they cant have them,and they have nothing good to show...
Really,stop discuss to a ridicolus damage advantage,because we are speaking about a ridicolous damage :
Player A : 15-22 sword with +15%
Player B : 15-22 sword with +15%^50% Hp
-------------------------------------------
Full HP or at 50% HP = Same Damage
-------------------------------------------
Less than 50% Both :
Player A : 15-22 sword with +15%, 15+15%=17 , 22+15%=25 TOTAL = 17-25
Player B : 15-22 sword with +15%^50% Hp, 15+0%=15 , 22+0%=22 TOTAL = 15-22
--------------------------------------------
2-3 damage of difference.....really OMG,complain for 2/3 damage?Or it is for xxxxxxxe?I BET ON SECOND....
If you dont like all this difference of damage (WOW 2-3 MAKE you a PRO), you can still use a 20%v50% Hp and you deal more damage than a 15% unconditional :
15+20% = 18 , 22+20%=4 , TOTAL = 18-26 (VS 17-25 of uconditional).
Now...tell me i wrong : It is all for ectos? YES IT IS

chessyang · Jan 27, 2011, 01:28 PM // 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

It is all for ectos? YES IT IS

Yep like most things in life, it always come down to the Dollar or Euro (depending where you live I guess)

Honestly I want a WinterGreens Spear but don't want to pay 100e+++ for it. So i'll start a thread "Bring back Inscription Candy Cane weapons Because i wansn't around in 2006"

Hobbs · Jan 27, 2011, 04:36 PM // 16:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

They had the resources to remove them all from the game when they removed the possibility for them to drop in the first place. The game was 2 weeks old and there was not that big a playerbase, and the items could've been easily traced and removed. They didn't do it back then, because they didn't want to, and they still won't do it, because of all the reasons summed up before.

I'm still not convinced of Anet's ability to delete/modify randomly generated items on the Live servers.

Mcsnake85 · Jan 27, 2011, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobbs

I'm still not convinced of Anet's ability to delete/modify randomly generated items on the Live servers.

I laugh hard if they are not able to do it....because private non-official servers of other game CAN (im speaking about random ppl that can modify line commands and create/delete or modify items)...
But im sure they cant, and they suck bad...
BTW, dont need delete them or modify, they dont give advantages in game and they are even worst than 2 set +15^50 +20v50....
They have only the power to call ectos.

Bright Star Shine · Jan 27, 2011, 05:46 PM // 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

In my opinion this is the endless war between rich and poor...
Rich want keep them to gain xxxxe or just to show them,well they are unique and there arent a lot of them.
Poor want to remove because they cant have them,and they have nothing good to show...
Really,stop discuss to a ridicolus damage advantage,because we are speaking about a ridicolous damage :
Player A : 15-22 sword with +15%
Player B : 15-22 sword with +15%^50% Hp
-------------------------------------------
Full HP or at 50% HP = Same Damage
-------------------------------------------
Less than 50% Both :
Player A : 15-22 sword with +15%, 15+15%=17 , 22+15%=25 TOTAL = 17-25
Player B : 15-22 sword with +15%^50% Hp, 15+0%=15 , 22+0%=22 TOTAL = 15-22
--------------------------------------------
2-3 damage of difference.....really OMG,complain for 2/3 damage?Or it is for xxxxxxxe?I BET ON SECOND....
If you dont like all this difference of damage (WOW 2-3 MAKE you a PRO), you can still use a 20%v50% Hp and you deal more damage than a 15% unconditional :
15+20% = 18 , 22+20%=4 , TOTAL = 18-26 (VS 17-25 of uconditional).
Now...tell me i wrong : It is all for ectos? YES IT IS

I don't own a uncod, and I never will. I will never even desire to own one, because indeed, it's a waste of money..

I, and most others want to keep them out of principle.. They aren't hurting anyone, and they never will. So please keep the "it's for the money" crap outside..

I am a fan of rare and interesting weapons, like dual inscr shields (the couple I can afford) or cool uninscr shields in general. I am also intrigued by the triplemods, but they are gonna be removed.. They say.. Uncods is on that list of interesting stuff and I like them for what they are.. Unusual, not because I have one..

Mcsnake85 · Jan 27, 2011, 06:03 PM // 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

Another bullshit reply.. I don't own a uncod, and I never will. I will never even desire to own one, because indeed, it's a waste of money..

I, and most others want to keep them out of principle.. They aren't hurting anyone, and they never will. So please keep the "it's for the money" crap outside..

I am a fan of rare and interesting weapons, like dual inscr shields (the couple I can afford) or cool uninscr shields in general. I am also intrigued by the triplemods, but they are gonna be removed.. They say.. Uncods is on that list of interesting stuff and I like them for what they are.. Unusual, not because I have one..

Well,you dont keep them for sell..but other yes..SO you cant say BULLSHIT, because HIGH END SELL is full of rare modded things..probably there are other 1000 ppl like you,but there is an equal number of ppl that want them to get xxxxxxxxxe...Say im wrong pls....

Bright Star Shine · Jan 27, 2011, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mcsnake85

Well,you dont keep them for sell..but other yes..SO you cant say BULLSHIT, because HIGH END SELL is full of rare modded things..probably there are other 1000 ppl like you,but there is an equal number of ppl that want them to get xxxxxxxxxe...Say im wrong pls....

I'd like to, but I don't understand what you're saying.. I read it 8 times and still didn't figure it out yet..

Mcsnake85 · Jan 27, 2011, 06:13 PM // 18:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bright Star Shine

I'd like to, but I don't understand what you're saying.. I read it 8 times and still didn't figure it out yet..

well sorry about that,im not english and im still learning..
I try to explain better, i hope to write better now :
You want Rare Items to collect them, right? so you buy everything just to keep and add in your collection right?
Ok,there are other ppl like you that dont need money or e or ambrace, and want buy JUST to keep them..
BUT there are other ppl that dont want those item nered or deleted or modified, JUST TO SELL and gain xxxxxe or money or ambrance...if you look in HIGH END section you can find a lot of ppl selling them...
I hope you can understand now =)